The Random Innovation Thread!

[Steve Ince]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

For example, you can post an idea for:

• An original story involving unusual characters, settings, or plot points

What about an original story involving ordinary characters, an everyday setting and a story and plot that's much more personal than saving the world every time?

How about the guy who's trying to make sure his daughter's wedding goes off without a hitch?

How about the woman who's only got a couple of months to live and wants to swim with dolphins before she goes.

How about the young mother living in fear on a crime-ridden housing estate? Can she overcome her fears?

And a ton of others, no doubt.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Tell me about it! I'm sick of all this save-the-world-because-you're-a-Templar reruns. I'm also sick of wandering around as the only survivor in a dead world full of contraptions, but I figured that has more to do with not having enough money to create other characters with A.I. more than anything.

If you remember, Steve, I was also proposing much more personal stories exploring very personal issues, like incest, self-esteem, identity, and sexuality.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

What about an original story involving ordinary characters, an everyday setting and a story and plot that's much more personal than saving the world every time?

How about the guy who's trying to make sure his daughter's wedding goes off without a hitch?

How about the woman who's only got a couple of months to live and wants to swim with dolphins before she goes.

How about the young mother living in fear on a crime-ridden housing estate? Can she overcome her fears?

And a ton of others, no doubt.

Yes, why not?
But I'm not playing adventure games to experience my everyday life, in case the story would evolve around raising teenagers. (which indeed involves a lot of puzzle solving) I was attracted to gaming for the escape into mystic worlds away from my everyday life. Now I've come to enjoy realistic environments but playing a too realistic game would be a turn off for me. I've got enough of that at home.
But I guess that's just me.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Jelena

Yes, why not?
But I'm not playing adventure games to experience my everyday life, in case the story would evolve around raising teenagers. (which indeed involves a lot of puzzle solving) I was attracted to gaming for the escape into mystic worlds away from my everyday life. Now I've come to enjoy realistic environments but playing a too realistic game would be a turn off for me. I've got enough of that at home.
But I guess that's just me.

You don't watch a movie like Ordinary People or Norma Rae for the same reasons, do you? You watch it for the dramatic entertainment value and, for some of us, for the lessons taught.

The idea we're discussing is to get away from the homogeneousness of adventure game themes in narrative, characterization, etc. No one is saying you must play games based on real life ideas and issues. But there should be as many different kinds of themes as possible, not just 'escapist' themes.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

What about an original story involving ordinary characters, an everyday setting and a story and plot that's much more personal than saving the world every time?

Sounds pretty unusual to me. Unusual for adventures, that is. If any of these ideas were made in an adventure, they'd be incredibly innovative. But just saying "an adventure game about an everyday story" is easy- the devil's in reinventing the language of adventures to fit. These are all good premises, sure. What would the gameplay be like, I wonder?

How about the guy who's trying to make sure his daughter's wedding goes off without a hitch?

Without an indication of what the gameplay would be like, I have to assume that this is a simulation game - and not an adventure. It would inherit its language from Civilization and The Sims, not from Monkey Island and Myst. So I don't think it would even really fit in this thread.

How about the woman who's only got a couple of months to live and wants to swim with dolphins before she goes.

That's a good, creative premise. I applaud you. In this case, I do see potential for a good adventure of any variety, since the real meat of the story - what happens on her way there - could be anything.

How about the young mother living in fear on a crime-ridden housing estate? Can she overcome her fears?

I'm not sure. Unlike the first two ideas, which give me some sort of idea of how the game would play (however vague), this is a blank slate to me.


I hope you don't think I'm pressing you too hard here- It's just that these are really out-of-the-box ideas and I'm eager to hear more about them.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

The idea we're discussing is to get away from the homogeneousness of adventure game themes in narrative, characterization, etc. No one is saying you must play games based on real life ideas and issues. But there should be as many different kinds of themes as possible, not just 'escapist' themes.

For me, still being new to adventure gaming I still haven't had it with the escapism. I, as a buyer of games just gave my view to Steve's suggestions for stories.

[MoriartyL]

While I'm waiting for Steve Ince to elaborate (or someone else, if they're up to the tremendous task) on how a realistic adventure would play (and still be an adventure, not a simulation or an RPG or anything like that), here's another idea.

First of all, this idea has no puzzles. None whatsoever. And it's completely nonlinear. It's a world to explore, set a millenium from now, when the next evolution of humanity has taken over from humans. These superhuman giants are so hyperintelligent no human is capable of understanding them. And they are so hyperintelligent that they get into wars which stretch the laws of physics themselves seemingly over nothing at all. These battles are used for the boundaries of the world design: If you reach the edge of what's been programmed, you reach a seemingly magical battleground, and if you set foot on it you die and the game exits. The central theme is that humans are pets, kept alive only because the giants find them cute. You (the traveller from our time) travel through this world observing it and talking to people. Many of the people you see are pets, who have idyllic lives because their every need is cared to by their owners. They have no interest in being free because they love their masters and know that the masters are superior. A lot of these people are just plain dumb, like an infant. Meanwhile, there is a small section of the world with humans who are so obsessed with independence that they have completely isolated themselves from the rest of the world using primitive (for their time) technology, and "human right" groups among the giants are dedicated to their preservation (as you learn from some of the people). Then there are other humans, in other parts of the game world, who are simply killed and eaten for supper. The game would play with the question of what makes humans so special by giving the independant humans pets too and making comparisons between the eating of meat and the eating of formerly-live plants. As I said, there are no puzzles. There is no goal. You simply observe.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

How about the woman who's only got a couple of months to live and wants to swim with dolphins before she goes.

Mourir en Mer, only without dolphins (thank god! ).

[MoriartyL]

Wow, that looks good. Too bad I don't speak French- they make the best games outside of Japan.

[insane_cobra]

You can play it in English and the title means "To Die at Sea".

[Enamorada]

I had an idea for a very long time, but it is impossible to make. At least not now, maybe ina a few hundred years. But I would really love to see an adventure game, which would be like a virtual reality, where they put you in some sort of cabin, or i don't know what, and you have to actually do everything you want your character to do. And the story would be based on your subconscious desires. So the story would be the story you make up. So it would be like an ideal game for you. And it could last forever long. And it would depend on the mood you are in. It's an utopian idea, but still it would be great.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

You don't watch a movie like Ordinary People or Norma Rae for the same reasons, do you? You watch it for the dramatic entertainment value and, for some of us, for the lessons taught.

The idea we're discussing is to get away from the homogeneousness of adventure game themes in narrative, characterization, etc. No one is saying you must play games based on real life ideas and issues. But there should be as many different kinds of themes as possible, not just 'escapist' themes.

I agree with Lena. I very rarely watch those kinds of movies either. Once in a while I will but it has to be a very, very interesting story. I haven't gotten fed up with themes in adventure games yet either.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Erin Brokovich was brilliant. I can imagine an adventure game with that story where the gameplay consists of research work, decoding, and dialogue challenges with NPCs.

How often in YOUR life do you uncover a multibillion dollar conspiracy that puts innocent citizens in danger of dying from chemical induced cancers?

[Scoville]

For a long time now I've been wanting to make an adventure game where the main character starts off more or less as a blank slate. His dialogue at the outset is fairly bland. All puzzles in this game would have between 1-5 solutions, with each solution aligning to one of five personality types: aggresive, communicative, sneaky, inventive, and resourceful. As the game progresses, the character's personality takes on that of the type you most use. Furthermore, using solutions of one type would preclude you from using solutions of other types later on, subtly forcing you to take on the personality type you unwittingly chose. For example, if you take the aggressive solution to a specific problem early on (say by beating up someone to get what you want), you wouldn't be able to take the communicative solution to a particular puzzle later in the game (because the guy won't talk to you anymore).

This would take ages to design properly. It would be a complete nightmare to manage the web of interconnected puzzles to ensure that the player could never get stuck. But it could be done.

[Steve Ince]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Sounds pretty unusual to me. Unusual for adventures, that is. If any of these ideas were made in an adventure, they'd be incredibly innovative. But just saying "an adventure game about an everyday story" is easy- the devil's in reinventing the language of adventures to fit. These are all good premises, sure. What would the gameplay be like, I wonder?

I envision the gameplay being that of a typical third person adventure game - point and click, too, to make it as accessible to as wide an audience as possible.

Without an indication of what the gameplay would be like, I have to assume that this is a simulation game - and not an adventure. It would inherit its language from Civilization and The Sims, not from Monkey Island and Myst. So I don't think it would even really fit in this thread.

Not at all, it would definitely be an adventure, though thinking about it a little more it might need to be a comedy with a tone like "Meet the Fokkers". For instance, you need to pick up the wife's mother from the railway station but the car has a flat tyre and you can't find the jack or the tools to change the wheel...

That's a good, creative premise. I applaud you. In this case, I do see potential for a good adventure of any variety, since the real meat of the story - what happens on her way there - could be anything.

The premise is a bit cheesy, I know, but as you say, in a story of this nature the goal is less important than the journey to that goal.

I'm not sure. Unlike the first two ideas, which give me some sort of idea of how the game would play (however vague), this is a blank slate to me.

This is just a character and a setting at the moment, but the key could be in how she interacts with the other people on the estate and brings out a series of small stories that build into a bigger whole.

[MoriartyL]

Originally Posted by Steve Ince

Not at all, it would definitely be an adventure, though thinking about it a little more it might need to be a comedy with a tone like "Meet the Fokkers". For instance, you need to pick up the wife's mother from the railway station but the car has a flat tyre and you can't find the jack or the tools to change the wheel...

Now I see. That could be really fun!

Originally Posted by Enamorada

I had an idea for a very long time, but it is impossible to make. At least not now, maybe ina a few hundred years. But I would really love to see an adventure game, which would be like a virtual reality, where they put you in some sort of cabin, or i don't know what, and you have to actually do everything you want your character to do. And the story would be based on your subconscious desires. So the story would be the story you make up. So it would be like an ideal game for you. And it could last forever long. And it would depend on the mood you are in. It's an utopian idea, but still it would be great.

Except it's not an adventure. Otherwise, yeah- cool idea.

Originally Posted by Scoville

For a long time now I've been wanting to make an adventure game where the main character starts off more or less as a blank slate. His dialogue at the outset is fairly bland. All puzzles in this game would have between 1-5 solutions, with each solution aligning to one of five personality types: aggresive, communicative, sneaky, inventive, and resourceful. As the game progresses, the character's personality takes on that of the type you most use. Furthermore, using solutions of one type would preclude you from using solutions of other types later on, subtly forcing you to take on the personality type you unwittingly chose. For example, if you take the aggressive solution to a specific problem early on (say by beating up someone to get what you want), you wouldn't be able to take the communicative solution to a particular puzzle later in the game (because the guy won't talk to you anymore).

This would take ages to design properly. It would be a complete nightmare to manage the web of interconnected puzzles to ensure that the player could never get stuck. But it could be done.

Very clever. That's certainly a new way of looking at the player-character relationship.

[MoriartyL]

Out of curiosity, have there been any adventures where every time you tell the character to do something, he messes up? Y'know, a klutz.

[Enamorada]

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

Except it's not an adventure. Otherwise, yeah- cool idea.

That's the whole point, it has to be an adventure game. You have to find objects, just go and take the object. You have to combine objects with your own hands. You talk to people, you do puzzles, which you think of.

Of course the same can be made with a pre-written game. It would be easier to design nowadays.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Erin Brokovich was brilliant. I can imagine an adventure game with that story where the gameplay consists of research work, decoding, and dialogue challenges with NPCs.

How often in YOUR life do you uncover a multibillion dollar conspiracy that puts innocent citizens in danger of dying from chemical induced cancers?

But that's more like a crime story which I absolutely would like to play. It's the everyday life aspect I disagree with. And yes, we've had our fair share of deaths and uncureable diseases in my family. I have lived it as everyday life and it's not that fun that I'd like to entertain me with it.
And don't read me wrong, it's not that I disagree with the point of this thread.

[insane_cobra]

Originally Posted by Jelena

But that's more like a crime story which I absolutely would like to play. It's the everyday life aspect I disagree with. And yes, we've had our fair share of deaths and uncureable diseases in my family. I have lived it as everyday life and it's not that fun that I'd like to entertain me with it.

That's pefectly reasonable, but even if you wouldn't want to play those games yourself, you have to allow for possibility that some people would.