Innovation, anyone?

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 12:54 PM

Just curious.

RLacey · 06-28-2006, 01:07 PM

Is this a ridiculously unsubtle comment on the fact that we haven't filled a certain other post with ideas?

Has it occurred to you that we might either be a) too busy to write long posts in the thread, b) not have many innovative ideas to share (and have torn apart) or c) want to keep innovative ideas to ourselves?

Innovation is important, yes. But I'm not about to sit down and write a dozen pointless (yet innovative) ideas down just for the sake of it.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 01:12 PM

For the sake of creativity. Creativity is fun. Or am I the only one who thinks that?

UPtimist · 06-28-2006, 01:12 PM

I have plenty of innovation.

Just no way to make them happen.

So there.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 01:14 PM

Oh, and as for the lack of subtlety- yeah, I don't do subtlety. I'd like to for once be given a straight answer, instead of a lot of people who just seem to hide when creativity (which I was certain would be fun for everyone) is involved.

UPtimist · 06-28-2006, 01:23 PM

So, I don't exactly get what you're trying to achieve with this thread, if you actually are trying to achieve something...

Squinky · 06-28-2006, 01:40 PM

Making polls about innovation is SO not innovative.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squinky

Making polls about innovation is SO not innovative.

Very true. As long as it serves its purpose, I don't see how this matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UPtimist

So, I don't exactly get what you're trying to achieve with this thread, if you actually are trying to achieve something...

Every so often, I come up with a random, innovative idea. This is not the sort of thing that's going to go anywhere, because I'm not in the business of making games. And even if I were in the business, these ideas usually have no value except in the entertainment you get out of thinking about them, because most innovation is not all that hard to come by and not all that useful. (If it is some important innovation which would lead somewhere, then none of this matters since it obviously should be conveyed to as many people as possible whether or not there is any appropriate outlet for it.) Anyway, I like to share these ideas, because that's what creativity is for- putting it out there and seeing how people react.

And one day, it occurred to me that there needs to be a persistent place where people like me can put ideas like that, for people to see it and react to it. The other selfish side of this is that I'd love to hear other ideas, from other people with differing perspectives, which could inspire me to come up with new ideas of my own. So I started a thread to serve this purpose. But overall, I saw this not so much a personal act as a community service, because this is a community of people who are as passionate about games as I am, and much more passionate when it comes to adventure games. Surely these people have such creative ideas, just as I do. And then they'll need an outlet for them, same as I do. And if they don't, they can strain a little to come up with one- it's always a good idea to exercise the creative part of the brain, plus it is very satisfying when others comment and build on what you've said.

Well, that's what I thought, anyway. Now I don't know what to think. See, very very soon after I started the thread, it died. And from my perspective this was not the sort of one-shot idea that is meant to die down- it was the sort of progressive innovation which serves a useful purpose. So I am left disappointed and bewildered. Hence the poll.

*Melanie68* · 06-28-2006, 02:01 PM

So all you need to do is bump the thread once in a while. You seem to place these high expectations on people and when they don't deliver, you're left disappointed and then you get ticked at us.

Bump the thread once in a while and someone will see it and may reply. I get the most miserable in my life when I put have high expectations and they don't get met. Maybe I was the one being unrealistic.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 02:07 PM

I don't bump threads. It's a dishonest manipulation of the forum system. I don't need it to be at the top; I just need to know that people know it's a place to put ideas whenever they feel like it.

*Melanie68* · 06-28-2006, 02:13 PM

Oh seriously.

Dishonest manipulation? All the heck you are doing is putting it on the front page once in a while so people can see it. If they don't see it, they don't know it's there. Nothing dishonest about it.

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-28-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

I don't bump threads. It's a dishonest manipulation of the forum system. I don't need it to be at the top; I just need to know that people know it's a place to put ideas whenever they feel like it.

What in hell are you talking about? Thread bumping is thread bumping, don't BS yourself. I do it occasionally, everyone does it occasionally.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 02:17 PM

Well, after I've explained what the thread exists for in considerable detail, it would be a bit hypocritical of me to then write a post saying only "bump". I was trying to bump it more honestly, by coming up with a new idea each time, but this is a subversion of the original concept- I didn't want to be forced into doing anything!

Am I forcing you? Hm. Well, I guess if you have no problem with bumps...

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-28-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mory

I was trying to bump it more honestly...

Honest bumping? LOL!! That's a new one.

I suppose it's better than dishonest bumping.

Intrepid Homoludens · 06-28-2006, 02:22 PM

Anyway, your topic is very vague. Innovation in what? And for what purpose and who benefits and why? And yeah, you're a brat for starting this thread because you feel you didn't get satisfactory enough responses in that OTHER innovation thread.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Honest bumping? LOL!! That's a new one.

I suppose it's better than dishonest bumping.

What's so funny? The order you see the threads in is linked to when the last post was written. If you write a post which doesn't contain anything in it, solely to manipulate the order, that strikes me as a bit dishonest.

MoriartyL · 06-28-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intrepid Homoludens

Anyway, your topic is very vague. Innovation in what? And for what purpose and who benefits and why? And yeah, you're a brat for starting this thread because you feel you didn't get satisfactory enough responses in that OTHER innovation thread.

This is not meant to overlap with the other thread- I created it because I feel guilty for "littering" the other thread with my bratty whining and needed to move it somewhere else. I was afraid that the more time I spent complaining, the more the thread would turn from a place for ideas into "that place we avoid because each new post is just more of Mory's rants". Insults are not appreciated, but I agree that I have not gotten enough satisfactory responses (not "satisfactory enough"- there were some very good ideas thrown around at first).

Edit: Oh, and vagueness. I didn't respond to that. I left it ambiguous because the more specific it is the less useful. I had to limit it to adventures only because of the structure of these forums.

Jelena · 06-28-2006, 02:32 PM

Mory

I'll try to say something to explain my situation.
I've still got at least 50 adventure games to play before I start thinking about ideas and approaches that I miss in the adventure genre.
I think your first thread about innovation is a great topic. Try not to be so impatient. Not everyone spends the greater part of their day thinking about gaming you know.

RLacey · 06-28-2006, 02:33 PM

I think what surprises me here is the perhaps naive assumption that everyone on the forums is going to attach the same sense of importance to this thread that you do. Now, that's not to say that you're wrong to attach a sense of importance to it - innovation is clearly a necessary thing within gaming as a whole - but I don't much care for the implication that I'm somehow doing wrong by not leaping to contribute to the thread with a whole load of ideas that you yourself have described as having "no value".

My suggestion would be to just post in the thread when you yourself feel like doing so. Given the number of ideas you appear to have, that will almost certainly bump the thing, and I'd be wary of confusing a lack of replies with a lack of interest in the thread as a whole. If you keep posting, I suspect that others will, after reading your posts, begin to take part. And, if they don't, then the thread just dies, and you can at least have the satisfaction of having done your part in something that you consider to be important

.

*stepurhan* · 06-28-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoriartyL

For the sake of creativity. Creativity is fun. Or am I the only one who thinks that?

Yes, creativity is fun. But AGs aren't everyone's choice of outlet for creativity. There's singing, playing a musical instrument, dance, poetry, painting, sculpture, interior design......

I could go on but you get the idea. You're enthusiastic about AG innovation. Good for you. My preference is for poetry (a small amount of which has appeared in these very forums) I can't recall seeing any of your poems around here. Would it be fair of me to accuse YOU of not liking creativity because of that?

I've applied my poetical skills obliquely in an adventure game (I helped rewrite some translated riddles in English) but that doesn't mean I want to spend all my time thinking up ideas for them. There are enough good AGs out there I haven't played and enough talented (and sometimes innovative) people working on new ones for me to not have to.

Just out of curiosity,have you tried to take any of the ideas you've had already and applied them to making a game? That better more creative Ag you wish for isn't going to write itself. If you've got the ideas then run with them. Until someone does that then those innovative ideas will always remain just so many words on a webpage.

View Poll Results: Does anyone around here like any type of innovation?
Yes.	3	23.08%
No.	2	15.38%
Maybe. -Ish.	1	7.69%
Sure, just so long as they don't have to do it themselves. Creativity is SO annoying.	0	0%
Ummmm.....	2	15.38%
Oh, leave us alone already.	5	38.46%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

06-28-2006, 12:54 PM	#1
MoriartyL Not like them! Last Online: 10-04-2015 04:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 2,570	Innovation, anyone? Just curious. __________________ -Mory My first game My second game My third game

06-28-2006, 01:07 PM	#2
RLacey The Thread™ will die. Last Online: 07-11-2012 11:25 PM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 22,542	Is this a ridiculously unsubtle comment on the fact that we haven't filled a certain other post with ideas? Has it occurred to you that we might either be a) too busy to write long posts in the thread, b) not have many innovative ideas to share (and have torn apart) or c) want to keep innovative ideas to ourselves? Innovation is important, yes. But I'm not about to sit down and write a dozen pointless (yet innovative) ideas down just for the sake of it. __________________ RLacey \| Killer of the Thread™ I do not change to be perfect. Perfect changes to be me.

06-28-2006, 01:12 PM	#3
MoriartyL Not like them! Last Online: 10-04-2015 04:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 2,570	For the sake of creativity. Creativity is fun. Or am I the only one who thinks that? __________________ -Mory My first game My second game My third game

06-28-2006, 01:14 PM	#5
MoriartyL Not like them! Last Online: 10-04-2015 04:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 2,570	Oh, and as for the lack of subtlety- yeah, I don't do subtlety. I'd like to for once be given a straight answer, instead of a lot of people who just seem to hide when creativity (which I was certain would be fun for everyone) is involved. __________________ -Mory My first game My second game My third game

06-28-2006, 01:12 PM	#4
UPtimist Life and times of... Last Online: 04-13-2014 04:36 AM Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Up there in the mist Posts: 6,025	I have plenty of innovation. Just no way to make them happen. So there.

06-28-2006, 01:23 PM	#6
UPtimist Life and times of... Last Online: 04-13-2014 04:36 AM Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Up there in the mist Posts: 6,025	So, I don't exactly get what you're trying to achieve with this thread, if you actually are trying to achieve something...

06-28-2006, 01:40 PM	#7
Squinky Unreliable Narrator Last Online: 08-10-2012 07:03 PM Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Le Canada Posts: 9,873	Making polls about innovation is SO not innovative. __________________ Squinky is always right, but only for certain values of "always" and "right".

06-28-2006, 02:01 PM	#9
Melanie68 Super Moderator Last Online: 05-19-2012 11:09 AM Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,907	So all you need to do is bump the thread once in a while. You seem to place these high expectations on people and when they don't deliver, you're left disappointed and then you get ticked at us. Bump the thread once in a while and someone will see it and may reply. I get the most miserable in my life when I put have high expectations and they don't get met. Maybe I was the one being unrealistic.

06-28-2006, 02:07 PM	#10
MoriartyL Not like them! Last Online: 10-04-2015 04:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 2,570	I don't bump threads. It's a dishonest manipulation of the forum system. I don't need it to be at the top; I just need to know that people know it's a place to put ideas whenever they feel like it. __________________ -Mory My first game My second game My third game

06-28-2006, 02:13 PM	#11
Melanie68 Super Moderator Last Online: 05-19-2012 11:09 AM Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 8,907	Oh seriously. Dishonest manipulation? All the heck you are doing is putting it on the front page once in a while so people can see it. If they don't see it, they don't know it's there. Nothing dishonest about it.

06-28-2006, 02:17 PM	#13
MoriartyL Not like them! Last Online: 10-04-2015 04:39 AM Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Israel Posts: 2,570	Well, after I've explained what the thread exists for in considerable detail, it would be a bit hypocritical of me to then write a post saying only "bump". I was trying to bump it more honestly, by coming up with a new idea each time, but this is a subversion of the original concept- I didn't want to be forced into doing anything! Am I forcing you? Hm. Well, I guess if you have no problem with bumps... __________________ -Mory My first game My second game My third game

06-28-2006, 02:22 PM	#15
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Last Online: 05-17-2012 02:26 AM Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Anyway, your topic is very vague. Innovation in what? And for what purpose and who benefits and why? And yeah, you're a brat for starting this thread because you feel you didn't get satisfactory enough responses in that OTHER innovation thread. __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

06-28-2006, 02:32 PM	#18
Jelena Lazy Bee Last Online: 06-06-2012 11:45 AM Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 7,518	Mory I'll try to say something to explain my situation. I've still got at least 50 adventure games to play before I start thinking about ideas and approaches that I miss in the adventure genre. I think your first thread about innovation is a great topic. Try not to be so impatient. Not everyone spends the greater part of their day thinking about gaming you know. __________________ Temporary guest in your life

06-28-2006, 02:33 PM	#19
RLacey The Thread™ will die. Last Online: 07-11-2012 11:25 PM Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 22,542	I think what surprises me here is the perhaps naive assumption that everyone on the forums is going to attach the same sense of importance to this thread that you do. Now, that's not to say that you're wrong to attach a sense of importance to it - innovation is clearly a necessary thing within gaming as a whole - but I don't much care for the implication that I'm somehow doing wrong by not leaping to contribute to the thread with a whole load of ideas that you yourself have described as having "no value". My suggestion would be to just post in the thread when you yourself feel like doing so. Given the number of ideas you appear to have, that will almost certainly bump the thing, and I'd be wary of confusing a lack of replies with a lack of interest in the thread as a whole. If you keep posting, I suspect that others will, after reading your posts, begin to take part. And, if they don't, then the thread just dies, and you can at least have the satisfaction of having done your part in something that you consider to be important . __________________ RLacey \| Killer of the Thread™ I do not change to be perfect. Perfect changes to be me.