Sex and Violence

*stuboy* · 09-29-2005, 09:24 AM

I'm not suggesting that both violence and sexuality were anything but core in telling the story of Fahrenheit, so this is in no way an accusation of "selling out" by including them, but do you think it would have sold as well without? Do you think that character progression and tight narrative is enough to shift units, especially to the kind of gamers that want to see nothing but gore, guns and girly pics? If for instance, we were to take a cinema classic (I'll pick one I know you like and that fits with the theme) such as Citizen Kane, and did a similar thing in interactive drama form, with a tight plot, plenty of interaction and great characters, would it stand a chance? Do you think your sales would have been as good if it wasn't for murders, cops, and kick ass kung-fu? Do you think anyone's ever could be?

David Cage · 09-29-2005, 10:15 AM

As you noticed, violence and sex play a very minor role in the game, and when you look at gamer's feedback, you realise that what they enjoyed the most were the scenes where they shared the private lives of the characters, which are the less spectacular of the game.

I am surprised myself, because I felt like I "had" to include spectacular action scenes to get gamers' interest, and I was wrong.

Gamers become tired of getting more violence and special effects all the time, I guess at least some of them are looking for something different, which they found in Indigo Prophecy.

I guess there will be a time where we will be able to offer Shakespeare pieces as interactive drama, or Woody Allen stories. And this day may not be that far...

Sex and violence played absolutely no role in the success of the game. I think that the will to create emotions and the possibility to really play in a story were the appealing elements of the game.

Solace · 09-29-2005, 10:17 AM

So you didnt want to create some 'hot coffee' mod into the game then?

*prodding at some mishap game won't mention which one*

Chris

***fov*** · 09-29-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cage

I am surprised myself, because I felt like I "had" to include spectacular action scenes to get gamers' interest, and I was wrong.

Woo! It's great to hear you say this. A lot of adventure fans are turned off by action added to a game just to attract a wider audience. Now you just have to convince the publishers it isn't necessary.

Quote:

I guess there will be a time where we will be able to offer Shakespeare pieces as interactive drama, or Woody Allen stories. And this day may not be that far...

I sure hope so.

Coren · 09-29-2005, 10:24 AM

Agreed, for me the absolute strong point of the game was the emotion.
But IMO, the sex played a big part in this emotional aspect, so in that way, it did add to the success of Fahrenheit.

SPOILERS AHEAD
Speaking of emotions, it would have been REALLY cool if you could feel Lucas's doubts and fears even more. When you see that scene with the ritual in his room, I thought for a moment that maybe he really WAS going mad and really DID commit the murder himself.

I really really enjoyed the first 2/3rds of the game. There was this melancholy, this silent sadness over the game, I loved it. When the AI and the Mayans started joining in, the game kind of lost me, though.

Take these as hints for Fahrenheit 2

Coren

Cyphox · 09-29-2005, 10:32 AM

mmmh....in my opinion the sex scenes don't play such a big role....

the fighting scenes (destroying the keyboard, yeah

) where much more important.

mmmh....i have the german version (but i played in original "english" cause of the bad german sync)....i heard that the sex scenes where cut in the american version...is it true?.....just like gta:sa, the hot-coffee-mod and Hillary Clinton

nomadsoul · 09-29-2005, 10:34 AM

Well on the contrary to what David think sex has played its part very well atleast 40% in the success of Fahrenheit.Forums are full of people asking about sex scenes most of the people are importing ,going the trouble of importing just for playable sexscenes ,maybe thts the reason it sold high in european countries because of uncensored version.

pinkgothic · 09-29-2005, 10:38 AM

Maybe, but don't forget, though, that those people who have played the uncensored version don't tend to believe the bits getting censored out would have change their like of it. I've even heard contrary opinions (which I happen to share) from BoyToy... perhaps playing Indigo Prophecy would have been better for us.

avatar_58 · 09-29-2005, 10:42 AM

As someone who has only played Indigo Prophecy and not the uncensored version I can tell you that it didn't affect my love for the game

I don't think sex is that nessesary but it is kind of odd that censors make it out to be worse than violence (when sex is natural and killing a man is wrong).

nomadsoul · 09-29-2005, 10:45 AM

Its just that a controversial game gets more attention and if the word sex comes in it people get crazy to find out about the title, that they havent heard about before .

Intrepid Homoludens · 09-29-2005, 10:47 AM

Personally I'm not missing the sex scenes so much (still playing the game), because from what I've heard and from what comments David has put out, they're not necessarily vital to enjoying the story and game. Still, I think it's rather disappointing how this game undeservedly got tangled up in the whole game content scandal with GTA: SA.

Not sure if David and Guillaume have played Max Payne 2, but I thought the sexuality was handled very well in that game. There was no nudity and no actual graphic portrayal of sex, but the atmosphere was thick with sexuality. I really liked how they conveyed it.

Cyphox · 09-29-2005, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avatar_58

As someone who has only played Indigo Prophecy and not the uncensored version I can tell you that it didn't affect my love for the game

I don't think sex is that nessesary but it is kind of odd that censors make it out to be worse than violence (when sex is natural and killing a man is wrong).

you're absolutely right...as said, i own the uncensored german version, i really don't understand the american censors....

as said, the sex scenes are just a "little funny thing" in the game...for me...they are not really necessary...but i don't understand people like hillary clinton and so one...cause you see NOTHING...just b00bs sometimes, no genital at all.....it always will be a mystery to me....

Tomma · 09-29-2005, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Cage

As you noticed, violence and sex play a very minor role in the game, and when you look at gamer's feedback, you realise that what they enjoyed the most were the scenes where they shared the private lives of the characters, which are the less spectacular of the game.

I am surprised myself, because I felt like I "had" to include spectacular action scenes to get gamers' interest, and I was wrong.

Je pense que le plus important c'est d'écrire le scénario le plus "juste" à ses yeux pour ne pas avoir de regret

Le pire est sans doute de regretter une scène qu'on ne voulait pas (ceci est un message subliminal pour une version Director's cut lol)

avatar_58 · 09-29-2005, 11:36 AM

See what I can't understand is why the american censors affected us here in canada. I've seen far worse on TV as early as 10:00pm!!

I think people overreacted really. Why can a game such as Leisure suit Larry MCL (full of sex and nudity) and a game such as Doom 3 (full of violence and gore) exist....and yet combining small fragments of both is a no-no.

I just don't get it.

*stuboy* · 09-29-2005, 11:37 AM

I seem to have kicked off the whole sex thing again... oops.

nomadsoul · 09-29-2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avatar_58

See what I can't understand is why the american censors affected us here in canada. I've seen far worse on TV as early as 10:00pm!!

I think people overreacted really. Why can a game such as Leisure suit Larry MCL (full of sex and nudity) and a game such as Doom 3 (full of violence and gore) exist....and yet combining small fragments of both is a no-no.

I just don't get it.

Yeah but problem lies in the elders who percievevideogames as Children entertainment.
In NA games are for kids and shuld not contain adult material even if its rated mature

Intrepid Homoludens · 09-29-2005, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadsoul

Yeah but problem lies in the elders who percievevideogames as Children entertainment.
In NA games are for kids and shuld not contain adult material even if its rated mature

Yeah, that's what I stated in my post above.

getson · 10-17-2005, 05:53 AM

Short of playing the game, is there a way to find out which version of the game I have?

***fov*** · 10-17-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by getson

Short of playing the game, is there a way to find out which version of the game I have?

If it's called Indigo Prophecy, you have the North American (slightly censored) version. If it's called Fahrenheit, you have the European (uncensored) version. The title should be right on the box or DVD case.

getson · 10-17-2005, 10:14 AM

Unfortunately, I've only borrowed the game from a friend (for now. I think I might buy it soon because I'm loving it so far -- even though I've just begun) so I don't have anything other than the disk. In the training, David said "Welcome to Fahrenheit..." or something. In the North American version, does he say "Welcome to Indigo Prophecy..."?

09-29-2005, 09:24 AM	#1
stuboy Staff Member Last Online: 09-15-2011 02:59 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 531	Sex and Violence I'm not suggesting that both violence and sexuality were anything but core in telling the story of Fahrenheit, so this is in no way an accusation of "selling out" by including them, but do you think it would have sold as well without? Do you think that character progression and tight narrative is enough to shift units, especially to the kind of gamers that want to see nothing but gore, guns and girly pics? If for instance, we were to take a cinema classic (I'll pick one I know you like and that fits with the theme) such as Citizen Kane, and did a similar thing in interactive drama form, with a tight plot, plenty of interaction and great characters, would it stand a chance? Do you think your sales would have been as good if it wasn't for murders, cops, and kick ass kung-fu? Do you think anyone's ever could be?

09-29-2005, 10:38 AM	#8
pinkgothic Feind der Anonymitaet! Last Online: 02-23-2008 02:09 PM Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 1,898	Maybe, but don't forget, though, that those people who have played the uncensored version don't tend to believe the bits getting censored out would have change their like of it. I've even heard contrary opinions (which I happen to share) from BoyToy... perhaps playing Indigo Prophecy would have been better for us. __________________ "Me pee stick bigger you pee stick." (credit to, but not attributed to, Jeysie) "Don't be careful, be immortal." Brat™, certified as by Trep Winner of the Second-Best-Dressed and Non-Specific awards in the Unbiased Impostor Awards™, amongst many others. Non-Conformist to Non-Conformism™ Internet Explodifier™ - the best weapon of mass destruction!!!11one Trademark Overuser™

09-29-2005, 10:47 AM	#11
Intrepid Homoludens merely human Last Online: 05-17-2012 02:26 AM Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 22,309	Personally I'm not missing the sex scenes so much (still playing the game), because from what I've heard and from what comments David has put out, they're not necessarily vital to enjoying the story and game. Still, I think it's rather disappointing how this game undeservedly got tangled up in the whole game content scandal with GTA: SA. Not sure if David and Guillaume have played Max Payne 2, but I thought the sexuality was handled very well in that game. There was no nudity and no actual graphic portrayal of sex, but the atmosphere was thick with sexuality. I really liked how they conveyed it. __________________ platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs \| gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii \| blog: a space alien \| book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris \| games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain \| sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer \| music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake \| twitter: a_space_alien

09-29-2005, 10:15 AM	#2
David Cage Member Last Online: 09-29-2005 02:11 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 62	As you noticed, violence and sex play a very minor role in the game, and when you look at gamer's feedback, you realise that what they enjoyed the most were the scenes where they shared the private lives of the characters, which are the less spectacular of the game. I am surprised myself, because I felt like I "had" to include spectacular action scenes to get gamers' interest, and I was wrong. Gamers become tired of getting more violence and special effects all the time, I guess at least some of them are looking for something different, which they found in Indigo Prophecy. I guess there will be a time where we will be able to offer Shakespeare pieces as interactive drama, or Woody Allen stories. And this day may not be that far... Sex and violence played absolutely no role in the success of the game. I think that the will to create emotions and the possibility to really play in a story were the appealing elements of the game.

09-29-2005, 10:17 AM	#3
Solace Junior Member Last Online: 09-29-2005 06:31 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5	So you didnt want to create some 'hot coffee' mod into the game then? prodding at some mishap game won't mention which one Chris

09-29-2005, 10:24 AM	#5
Coren Junior Member Last Online: 10-10-2006 12:04 AM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 8	Agreed, for me the absolute strong point of the game was the emotion. But IMO, the sex played a big part in this emotional aspect, so in that way, it did add to the success of Fahrenheit. SPOILERS AHEAD Speaking of emotions, it would have been REALLY cool if you could feel Lucas's doubts and fears even more. When you see that scene with the ritual in his room, I thought for a moment that maybe he really WAS going mad and really DID commit the murder himself. I really really enjoyed the first 2/3rds of the game. There was this melancholy, this silent sadness over the game, I loved it. When the AI and the Mayans started joining in, the game kind of lost me, though. Take these as hints for Fahrenheit 2 Coren

09-29-2005, 10:32 AM	#6
Cyphox Junior Member Last Online: 09-29-2005 12:29 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 17	mmmh....in my opinion the sex scenes don't play such a big role.... the fighting scenes (destroying the keyboard, yeah ) where much more important. mmmh....i have the german version (but i played in original "english" cause of the bad german sync)....i heard that the sex scenes where cut in the american version...is it true?.....just like gta:sa, the hot-coffee-mod and Hillary Clinton

09-29-2005, 10:34 AM	#7
nomadsoul Senior Member Last Online: 01-26-2012 04:28 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 331	Well on the contrary to what David think sex has played its part very well atleast 40% in the success of Fahrenheit.Forums are full of people asking about sex scenes most of the people are importing ,going the trouble of importing just for playable sexscenes ,maybe thts the reason it sold high in european countries because of uncensored version.

09-29-2005, 10:42 AM	#9
avatar_58 Sierra Junkie Last Online: 04-18-2006 09:25 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 797	As someone who has only played Indigo Prophecy and not the uncensored version I can tell you that it didn't affect my love for the game I don't think sex is that nessesary but it is kind of odd that censors make it out to be worse than violence (when sex is natural and killing a man is wrong).

09-29-2005, 10:45 AM	#10
nomadsoul Senior Member Last Online: 01-26-2012 04:28 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 331	Its just that a controversial game gets more attention and if the word sex comes in it people get crazy to find out about the title, that they havent heard about before .

09-29-2005, 11:36 AM	#14
avatar_58 Sierra Junkie Last Online: 04-18-2006 09:25 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 797	See what I can't understand is why the american censors affected us here in canada. I've seen far worse on TV as early as 10:00pm!! I think people overreacted really. Why can a game such as Leisure suit Larry MCL (full of sex and nudity) and a game such as Doom 3 (full of violence and gore) exist....and yet combining small fragments of both is a no-no. I just don't get it.

09-29-2005, 11:37 AM	#15
stuboy Staff Member Last Online: 09-15-2011 02:59 PM Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 531	I seem to have kicked off the whole sex thing again... oops.

10-17-2005, 05:53 AM	#18
getson Junior Member Last Online: 10-17-2005 10:14 AM Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2	Short of playing the game, is there a way to find out which version of the game I have?

10-17-2005, 10:14 AM	#20
getson Junior Member Last Online: 10-17-2005 10:14 AM Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2	Unfortunately, I've only borrowed the game from a friend (for now. I think I might buy it soon because I'm loving it so far -- even though I've just begun) so I don't have anything other than the disk. In the training, David said "Welcome to Fahrenheit..." or something. In the North American version, does he say "Welcome to Indigo Prophecy..."?