Corley

I vote anachronox also.

JemyM

Some of theese have been mentioned, but I mention them again.

If there was a such thing as a Game Oscar for storyline, and not mentioning adventuregames, here are my nominees:

Fallout, KOTOR, Planescape Torment, Max Payne, System Shock 2 and Deus Ex.

Theese are stories/storytelling that simply baffles me. Clear signs that if you like a good story, expand your search beyond adventuregames, books and movies. Theese are not only games, they are art.

aries323

If we pretended there was such a thing as an award for best story in a adventure game I definetely would give the award to *the longest journey*
Funcom 2000), and the the award for best story in an RPG goes to

- da - da --- da --- Planescape: Torment....

Best story in an FPS game, well, I think it would have to either be
Max Payne 2 or Prey....

Best story overall would clearly go the Planescape Torment.

Actually, if you look at Ragnar's blog (do a search on the web for his blog), he mentions that Dreamfall has been nominated for such an award: best story line and character interaction, I think it is called.


PS:
I really, really like The Longest Journey (and Dreamfall also), but especially The Longest Journey since I think the story is groundbreaking, crisp, and
really ads a very challenging and totally new way of thinking adventure games. Focus here is more in the story rather than puzzle hunting, puzzles are used to make the story move forward not to force the player into pixel hunting for clues or puzzles.

IMHO, the opening scene is brilliant, and the intro scene is brilliant as world, like the game's concept of balance is....Very, very interesting plot also, but more for the mature player than the the young ones.

Dreamfall is good to, but then I feel it maybe caters more to the taste of some young players, but that might just be because I haven't gotten so far in the game yet.

Anyway, I have had *the longest journey* for nearly 6½-7 years (I think) , and I can't believe that I've waited this long to play such a very original (in every sense of the word) game untill now.

Catbert

Max Payne isn't an FPS just a correction.

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Terramax

BLAH!

Yep, Payne ain't an FPS but I see your point. Has a terrific story and perfect presentation.

Personally, I found The Longest Journey the most overrated game I've ever played. The voice acting is annoying (can't stand the character outside the cinema cleaning the street), the humour, or attempts at humour fell flat every time - I never once laughed unless it was because of the graphics, which is my next point as that I also found terrible.

Some locations were nice, like the cafe April works in, and clearly there was a lot of effort, but many places were uninspiring, most particularly the pier on the alternate world with the static water, terrible! No decent art direction or originality. None seem to have the atmosphere I got from other games, maybe mainly because there were so little people in most locations. But then again, there weren't many in Broken Sword or Psychonauts.

The camera angles were almost always in the same mid to long shot. This didn't connote as to what I was supposed to be feeling at all. There was no indication as to whether I should be feeling anxiety or the idea that things were looking bad for April.

I found her so whiny and I couldn't relate to her. She had nothing good to say and her background felt way too typical. Perhaps because I could see the writer tried to make the character so sympathetic it feels desperate - the story about her turbulent relationship with her dad. I couldn’t care less. The fact that throughout the time I played it April was essentially on her own didn't really give the game an uplifting sense of unity when I think it should have. If there were a sidekick of sorts, things might have been different. What would Broken Sword be like without Nico? What would Grim Fandango be without Glottis? How many people would've enjoyed Star Wars without Skywalker's accomplices?

And what was April fighting for? She wasn't in love, didn't seem to have a major friendship with anyone, neither showed that she actually longed for anything. I wouldn't have been surprised if she were on anti-depressents. Nothing seemed to make her happy hence I didn't really want her to be. What kind of a character is that to root for? What was her goal in live? The had no aspirations to become best at anything, or even just to fit in with the rest of the other characters she seemed so distant from. Throughout what I played she wasn't changing either. Not overcoming any obstacles.

Sure, not every story needs to have easily lovable characters, but TLJ wasn't exactly Clockwork Orange or As Good As It Gets either.

The story, although original in concept, feels like an amateur fantasy story written on the Internet. The game just feels derivative from top to bottom.

The voice acting and the swearing are not mature at all, if anything it’s immature. If I want to hear constant swearing I’ll hook up with a group of chavs down by the local McDonalds. Voice acting was okay but not up to any high standard. The dialog was good in some places but I don’t think it translated well. I’ve come to notice this in almost all European/ non-English countries so I guess it’s not their fault.

This is why I wouldn’t even nominate TLJ as a good story, because it isn’t a story. There is a one good idea of the two realms merging, and the writer couldn’t be bothered to make any interesting, inspiring and sympathetic characters. The story isn’t any better than Far Cry other than that game has the decency not to have so much talking. It's more a concept than a story.

Basically the concept is 8/10, but for me, presentation was a big fat 0. The game might've been fun if it were more consistent, but where the story felt like it should be moving at a faster pace, I was running around trying to figure out pointless puzzles. Further more was the long dialog. The legless guy in the miniture space ship was just tiring. Then, after going through all he had to say the game just constantly crashed after I tried to leave the place, like the game just wanted me to be tortured with this guy for the rest of my life. I swear someone up above was sending me the message to give up, so I did.

By the way, is this the Vampire: Bloodlines game someone mentioned?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Activision-V...8&s=videogames

Also, I’m sold to Planescape: Tormented. Yesterday I saw a copy on Amazon.co.uk for £15, but when I went to buy it today the cheapest is now £29.99 so I’ll have to wait a lil longer to get.

I’ve noticed that a lot of these games are more violent, supposedly ‘mature’ games. Are there any non-violent games out there with good plots?

samIamsad

Chris Avellone's l777t writing skillz at work.


The campaign that came with it? The plotting sucks pretty much monkey balls, except maybe for one or two neat small-ish side stories here and there. The game's hub-like structure didn't help it in any kind of way. Even more so if you're as tired of Dee En Dee plot clichès as I am. Supposedly the hunchmen in the expansions are better, but I hardly cared for any character of the original game at all. I was given no reason to, but a few lines of text in the form of dialogue options that seemed to boil down to not one, but two completely predictable options: "So, who are you anyway, and tell me more about your (troubled, of course) past." And: "Tell me about your optional quest already, damnit! ME WANT MORE LOOT'N'ITEMS." Those became available once I reached level so and so. That's how things work in Kotor as well, but everybody who played that knows that things play out a little bit more fluid there (and the characterization is crisper as well). It doesn't come close to Torment, though.

While we're at it, I also hate it that optional romances have become something game makers love to tout as a feature.... and of course they need to be bloody everywhere. But that's another story.

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Spiwak

True. I remember when that was a big deal back when it first happened in Baldur's Gate II (I'm sure others did it beforehand, at the very least Planescape) and how cool it was. Finally there was a reason to care about party members and make decisions on who stays in other than who has a better THAC0. Now it's getting kinda old but at least Fable and KotOR 2 did things a little differently (Fable by turning it in a mini-game, KotOR 2 by real gameplay incentive to talk to characters and romance and what-not). I also won't deny that I tend to be sucked into romance plots easily.

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maladroid

Yeah, that's the one but ouch, 23+ pounds? Man, I got it new for 7.99 from Play back in the day. Now I will really feel bad should you not like it.

I'll have to say Loom again.. Also, the KOTOR games everyone is so excited about are not particularly violent or gruesome either.
By the way, a pretty much forgotten but quite nice adventure named Faust: Seven Games of the Soul had a great, mature story with a minimum amount of gruesomeness (as far as I remember). Its puzzles were on the tough side though and it used the (for me repulsive) first-person Cryo engine.

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kuze

Well, what did you expect? Dynamic camera, pixelshaded water, headshots of high-polygon models of April? This game didn't come out yesterday, of course the graphics are rather limited in TLJ.

As of the atmosphere, this is a personal perception, but I still disagree with you - the artwork as well as the story are very well done (yes, the story, which maybe wouldn't make a decent novel, but is a very enjoyable fairy tale; April isn't supposed to be Netochka Nezvanova, with a life drama and whatnot, but maybe Alice in Wonderland - tell me, what are the goals of Alice? Where is the character development? The moral of the story? Isn't Alice just a whiny little bitch, stuck in a concept of two worlds with no aspirations, no sidekick, surrounded just by nonsense? This comparison may be lacking, since Alice is the best book ever written and TLJ is just another game, but you get my point).

EDIT: Oh, and put in my vote for Vampire and Planescape Torment also (as well as TLJ). I gotta come back to PT someday, as I never finished it, but my eyes tear if I look at this resolution and fontset now. I really hope there will be a remake.

Spiwak

If Interplay still has the rights....hopeless. If BioWare has some sort of rights because it was their engine then doubtful as they seem to be concentrating on new projects (which is a good thing). I'm surprised you can't play Infinity Engine games. The fact they didn't try for 3D in that era of gaming is what makes them playable for me now (whereas I had a hard time playing TLJ and Blade Runner, and have a hard time going back to old N64 games and System Shock 2 and Deus Ex, etc). What I'm hoping for, and I've said it before, is a port of these games to the DS.

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Terramax

EVERYTHING is about expectations. If you're going to make an Epic game, it has to be just that. We don't rate indie games on high graphics because we accept they're indie games. TLJ was meant to be a rollercoaster ride, a visual fest that pulls the player in using its unique, colourful and diversive world. And it failed.

Stupid comparison. Alice in Wonderland isn't supposed to be a epic battle against Good and Evil story. What I’ve seen and read of Alice the ‘fate of everything’ did not rely on the hands of just her. However, the fate of April’s did. Not that there was anything in the world you actually WANTED to be saved. It looked rubbish, there were no polite people you really wanted saving, it was all just a waste of time.

And the whole point of Alice is to alienate the reader/ viewer and enjoy it by simply giving up to the non-logical plot and narrative style. At least that's the way I see it, but it's been too long since I actually read the original book. And unlike April's world, Wonder Land is actually a unique and beautiful world. One that I can enjoy learning about. April's is just a cheap copy of Blade Runner and countless other sci-fi games on the market, with no characters that you would ever want to meet in real life.

You can do whatever comparisons you like, but April the worst character for a game like this. It’d be more logical to have her as an enemy than anything else. If I'd met a woman like her in real life, I'd prefer to stay as far away as possible. And the fact is playing her in the game does not make me happy. It just A.) Bores me B.) Depresses me that I have to go through a game with no likeable characters.

You're right about one thing that TLJ is just another game.

I'm looking for stories in a games where the programmers and writers have done their best to make the story and dialog fluid and consistant, not afraid to cut half the dialog off of a conversation if it's too long, long winded, becomes too much or simply off topic. The explaination of the two worlds being ripped apart in the beginning of the Stark realm could have been way better if it wasn't just sitting in front of two characters in the same position for such a long time. It wouldn't have taken much more strain on the budget to have just a few extra cuts of pictures to keep the player focused. It wouldn't have been hard for the developers at all, but it just goes to show how arrogant and amateur the programmers were about the story and programming. I certainly hope the sequel is a lot better.

willing to take away scenes that are inappropriately placed. I agree TLJ would have been great as a novel. I might even like it as one. But this is a game. Stories in games and films are different to books in that you expect more fluidity and consistency. But then again even great book writers know when to self indulge in certain scenes and speed up in others. TLJ is a shambles in representation. I can almost see the box melting when I put it up to the likes of Silent Hill, Final Fantasy and Broken Sword.

I don't know why I wrote all this as I'm sure I'm just going to receive some lame 4 line reply.

AdrianWerner

Planescape:Torment
Thief 1
System Shock 2
Vampire: the Masquerade- Bloodlines
Mafia
No One Lives forever 1 and 2(incredible writing)
Undying
Homeworld
Myth 1-3

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SnorkleCat

Hmmm...stories....

I think Syberia is an enjoyable, story driven game.

As for non-AG....I'm probably going to get booed for this, but I've really gotten into Oblivion as a story (multiple stories actually), and I'm very attached to the world and the people in it....the story lines are not earth shattering by any means, but they're entertaining enough. The important thing though is not to go blazing through the game as fast as you can- I think people miss a lot when they play this way. Don't even do the main quest right away.

I thought Myst IV had an interesting story and good dramatic presentation. The quality of writing is superior to that found in most games, too.

Keepsake was very story driven and a charming game over all (despite its flaws, of which there were several)

I also got into the Scratches storyline (again, despite several weaknesses).

Terramax

I wouldn't boo you for it. I won't buy it until it's mega cheap as I just know it isn't my type of game. I don't usually like Lord Of The Rings with orcs, and straw roofed houses and castle settings. I find them quite uninspiring and unoriginal.
Another reason I won't play it just yet is that I'm really not in the mood for spending so many hours on a game like that. i prefer games around 5-15hrs gameplay. Usually, a story doesn't need to be longer than that.
I've also read the monsters get just as hard as you no matter what level you're at, whereever you go. This kinda destroys the whole point of leveling up. Might as well have made it like Zelda or Shenmue without leveling but just learning new moves as you progress.
I will get round to it one day.

I love Myst IV. Its story isn't that deep when you think about it. But like I said in a comment on another game, it doesn't have to be indepth as long as the representation is good. The immersion in the game, along with a number of diaries and cut scenes allows the story to be as big as the player wants. It's one of the very few games where I think the actually gameplay of exploration is actually part of the story rather than being forced a simple 'go to point a then point b' linearity

I've got this game on my Amazon wishlist. I'm just waiting for it to go down to £5 before I buy. Seems a little cliched but the puzzles seem good enough, and I wouldn't complain at a cheap price.

kuze

Well, I could say that everyone has a right to have his own opinion and leave it as that. But you obviously want yours to be commented on. So, let's take this thread OT.

TLJ is a beautiful game, which successfuly hides the weaknesses of its engine. Would they have done everything in 3D with funky (for their time) effects, it would be looking crappy by now - obviously. Now, tell me one year 2000 game from the AG department that has better engine than TLJ. I would have trouble naming one. Maybe you are talking about cutscenes? As far as I remember, they did look like made in Blender 0.01 by me - but hey, there weren't many of them, so they didn't make my gaming experience less enjoyable.

Maybe we percept a game differently. If I think about TLJ now, I don't think about an epic battle between good and evil. I think about exploration of two beautiful worlds, meeting amusing characters like that one map seller ("Maps. MAA-A-APS!") or the wizard of the floating castle. That battle thing wasn't important for me, as, I think, it wasn't intended to be. Therefore the Alice comparison doesn't sound all that stupid (thank you) to me.
April isn't the most enjoyable character, that is for sure. But I can live with that, I can understand her attitude and motifs. If the main character was some faceless dude like Max from Tunguska or Whatwashisnameagain from Runaway, the game would have suffered much more. Yes, the whole "teenage girl hates everyone and then saves the world" scenario is overused, as already stated by everyone and now me, but I don't believe it was when TLJ came out.

Some parts of the game were longwinded, but the only one I remember of now which annoyed me was the conversation April has when she first arrives in Arcadia. Other than that, I don't mind reading long conversations as long I feel entertained following them. And I certainly was. If you hope, Dreamfall is shorter on conversations and cutscenes, you are horribly wrong.

I said exactly the opposite and sadly we disagree on this point as well.

Spiwak:
Too bad we won't see a remake. Yes, the 2D-ishness makes it easier to play the game today, but still, 640x480 on a 19-inch monitor drives me crazy. The DS port we've already discussed about, it would certainly be great.

aries323

@ terramax

In your comment (to me) you mentioned the swearing in The Longest Journey. There must be something wrong with my ears cause I certainly can't hear any swearing in The Longest Journey (not unless you count the L word as swearing, and the talk about *IT* swearing).

Maybe, this is because I'm European that I don't notice these things as much as other people do :-?

Anyway, I'm not that good judging voice acting in games, since all my games are played in English anyway. However, since I do understand Norwegian I did play some of the game in Norwegian, and trust me, the English voice-acting is much better than the Norwegian one..

If you compare nearly 7 or 8 years old graphics to today's visuals being used in games, yes then you're correct: the visual presentation looks somewhat awfull. Even I can se that. However, once I get into the story, this point sort of disappears, and I get draw into and intriqued by the story as well.

As for April's background, you'll still need to compare with the typical adventure game being released in the year 2000. Back then, I don't remember seeing many adventure games being released that feautured a 17 orld young women who had just left her family, and then stood on the brink of adulthood, which development we get to follow *in the longest journey*.
[and then all the other games came... like syberia 1+2, like post mortem, like still life and such games....].

And yes, the whole daddy-boy/girl conflict has been done before, in very many ways, but still, TLJ did this conflict, in a way, so it, at least, to me, stayed away, from the clichés...

April isn't fighting for anything ---- she is a person whose own destiny is hidden from her --- until she realizes something about the balance of things.
She was a just normal girl, until the day....

The point of the long dialoque seems to be, at least to me, that we got to explore the world around us, get to know April through the people she talks to during the game's dialoque. And I rather liked the game's pace - very nice, very slow-moving progression. This game takes its time to tell its story --- as all great stories do.

You also have to remember that April in TLJ is 17-year old girl, mad at the world and mad at her family, and that most of the time, teenagers such as April doesn't really knwo what their goal in life is. However, during the course of the game, April sorts of find this out, - at least that's how I see it.

You mentioned humor, I haven't seen any humor in it --- yet. I don't the whole conversation about the thing that shall remain nameless was meant
by Ragnar to be humorous. I think these comments were made in order for us to get to know the people in TLJ a little bit more.

To me, to whole point of the game is that April is a lonely girl in a strange place in a strange world where discovers an even stranger world, which kind of seems inviting itself in her life --- somehow. And then, it wouldn't really have mattered letting her have a sidekick, imo. Since April needs to do what she does alone --- for obvious reasons....

samIamsad

Viconia!


Not to mention those puzzles could descend into the usual utter Cryo hogwash at times... the soundtrack was really cool, and the concept fascinating. Yes, it's the oddball Cryo game that almost managed to be really good. Hm, thinking about it, it is an Arxel Tribe game, isn't it?

Now that the topic of lengthy dialogues has reared it's head, I feel the need to "warn" Terramax that there's plenty text to read in Torment. It's probably the most text-laden commercial game since Infocom went bust. And it's not only dialogue you will read. The game gives you (well written) descriptions of your actions, surroundings and feelings as well. Eventually you'll initiate a conversation that can take up to half an hour(!), and that's my favourite part of the game actually. By that point you'll actually WANT to and try hard to get the absolute most out of said conversation.

Spoiler:

Is it not.. not.... knot? Ravel I'm talking about here? Oh, she issss.

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Melanie68

erm... Flipper Burns Burns Flipper. He probably had the worst swearing of any of the characters (and when I noticed the language the most otherwise it didn't bother me either).

But, everyone has a different tolerance level when it comes to swearing so I figure you have to respect that.

Terramax

Then there was the person in the room besides Aprils, who I believe said countless swearwords before April proclaims him an 'A@@hole'. I think the police officer swears when he's in the toilet and his eye falls out.

I can't be bothered to argue about the other points in the game. It's simply the usual cliched, derivative sci-fi fantasy I see on on television dramas.

Yeah, but from what I've read of a few reviews at least it has humour. I mean, what's funny about a guy shouting out maps? Most American comedy sitcoms beat TLJ to humour.

Terramax

I can't be bothered to write about TLJ anymore. It's simply the usual cliched, derivative sci-fi fantasy I see on on television dramas. I think anyone who really enjoys it doesn't know how a well balanced story is told.