Marek

If you have broadband and are interested in game development or the games industry, you might wanne check out the video of Jason Rubin's speech at DICE 2004. Up until a few days ago he was the CEO of Naughty Dog, which created Jak & Dexter etc. I never heard of Jason Rubin before seeing this video, which is perhaps the point he's trying to make. Basically it's an hour long rant about how game developers are undervalued in the whole grand scheme of things. It's passionately told and pretty funny at times. Anyway, I thought it was entertaining and insightful at the same time.

Draco2.5

Is it worth the time for a 56ker like myself?

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Marek

Erm, no. That would take ages.

mag

Cool. I heard it was a good one, but I didn't know there was a video of it. I think I'll check it out the next time I'm in Windows. Thanks for the link.

mag

Intrepid Homoludens

Tell you what, Marek honey. I'll watch the video if you listen to that audio discussion about the critic I had posted a while back in the Site Feedback dept., and which you so ardently expressed interest in:

Deal?

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remixor

Well, I've been standing in line at Fileplanet for bloody ages. I'm currently 204/624. It says I have 21 minutes left until I can start downloading. Can't wait...

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Chris "News Editor" Remo

Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs

"Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

Marek

Haha trep. Yes, we have a deal

zarathustrian

Please tell me there is another source for this file...

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remixor

I'm halfway done watching it, and it seems extremely interesting. I'm not sure his game-industry-as-Hollywood model is entirely solid, but his actual observations and analyses of the current state are spot-on in my opinion. I'll watch the rest of it later after class.

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Chris "News Editor" Remo

Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs

"Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

ragnar

You don't happen to be able to put the file up somewhere else so we don't have to wait on fileplanet?

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Ragnar Ouchterlony

Ninja Dodo

... or wait and start downloading only to have it stop rather permanently at 85%.

remixor

Well, after watching the whole thing (twice), I've decided I actually pretty much agree with his methods but only his fundamental main goals, not all the particulars. I like his developer-centric model and I firmly believe it makes MUCH more sense than today's publisher-controlled system (which is out of hand), and I agree that a system SIMILAR to that of Hollywood's could be beneficial to the system, but I don't like the way he seems to want to just transform the games industry into another Hollywood. He seems too focused on getting the two industries to share the same bed, what with all his encouragement of cross-marketing and celebrity pollination and so forth (his defense of the Jet Li game simply because it has Jet Li in it, despite not being a very good game, does not hold up at all in my opinion). I think there's a big danger with the games industry getting to be as much of a shiny polished cesspool as the movie industry is, and I don't want that to happen. It's not as if the games industry is really great today, but it's problems are distinct from the problems with Hollywood, and I'd rather not see simply a transference of grievances. That being said, I very much advocate the methods he is achieving to reach his apparent goal of Hollywoodization, I just don't think it should be taken as far as he does. My gut instinct tells me that this uber-Hollywoodization won't (and can't) happen anyway, at least in the near future, but then again if MTV really is saying that their average viewer's #1 dream job is to be a game designer, the possibility might be there.

Anyway, Rubin is definitely an intelligent man with a lot of experience and valuable insight into the industry. I don't want to give the impression that I think he's way off the mark, because I really do agree with almost all of his fundamental points. I just hesitate at how far it should go.

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Chris "News Editor" Remo

Some sort of Writer or Editor or Something, Idle Thumbs

"Some comparisons are a little less obvious. I always think of Grim Fandango as Casablanca on acid." - Will Wright

Erkki

Firstly, I don't like Hollywood. I consider 95% of what they create to be worthless. So I'm not in love with the idea of the game industry becoming another hollywood.
(on the other hand, I'm not sure if the entire worldwide game industry is any better in that regard).

But I think that was indeed a great speech and very much to the point. And from an economic point of view, trying to become a hollywood would probably make the most sense for game developers.

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mag

Is that legal? If so I can put it up on my web space after I've downloaded (yes, I still haven't gotten it yet ). I can post a link here once I have it up.

mag

ysbreker

If you can put a 400MB+ file on your webserver, go right ahead I'd say

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mag

Yeah. Like your little 400MB is gonna stop me. 8-)

Anyway, it's finally uploaded. For those of you who haven't already seen it, you can go here to get it. It's still a really huge file, but at least here you shouldn't have to wait in line.

mag

Jackal

Thanks, mag. I grabbed it off your site.

Interesting speech, and my reactions are similar to remixor's. Absolutely no doubt that a shift to a developer-focused industry would benefit everyone, but emulating the Hollywood model will get us nowhere fast.

I certainly supported the general principle behind G.O.D. and even Ion Storm (yes, I'll still admit to it, despite its ludicrous execution - it did result in Anachronox and Deus Ex, after all), and it's unfortunate that both failed so miserably. They may have been before their time, but both were probably victims of some of the dangers in the philosophy, too.

I'm pretty anti-celebrity in general, but I do agree that a personality/name recognition factor is a practical reality for development companies. A necessary evil, I guess. I just suspect very few can pull it off. Either because they lack a media-friendly charisma, or because celebrity erodes the grounded perspective they started with.

My main problem with the theory is that it's still ultimately marketing. It may be marketing a more integral facet that's at least associated with development (as opposed to publisher branding), but it's still marketing and P.R. So a new "Jason Rubin" or even Naughty Dog game may suggest quality if you liked his/their previous games, but it certainly isn't a guarantee. His example of Spielberg shows the flaws. I don't like a movie just because it's directed by him, so marketing HIM can be just as misleading. What am I getting, E.T. or A.I.?

Ideally, "talent" recognition should really be an INTERNAL function, not a public one, and marketing should focus on... ta daaa!! The GAMES!!!!

I know Rubin makes console games, but really the theory isn't that radical in the PC world. Take the names.... ohhh, I dunno.... Tim Schafer, Jane Jensen, Roberta Williams. Chances are a few people have heard of them. Or Sid Meier, Steve Meretzky, John Carmack, Richard Garriott. These are all names that have been around (and well known) for years. And now games like Empires and Rise of Nations feature the names Rick Goodman and Brian Reynolds, respectively, on the box COVER. So it's happening.

This annoys me all the more to see the struggles American McGee is having pitching Oz, mind you.

Did he leave Naughty Dog? Curious.

mag

You know, I've seen a lot of people describe this speech as a "rant," or some other similar term. So when I watched it I was prepared for this angry, overly emotional speech. But after seeing the whole thing, I don't really think that's a very fair assessment. Obviously, he's passionate about what he's talking about. But I think he voiced his opinion quite well.

I see what some of you are saying about the Hollywood thing. But I'm not sure he's calling for an exact emulation of Hollywood. He's just saying that there are some practices in Hollywood that game developers can learn from.

I agreed with just about everything he had to say. The only big thing I disagreed with him on is that they are on the same level as Kojima. Kojima is a genius. Kojima would put them all to shame.


Only to those of us who regularly follow games. For the vast majority of people, they have no idea who made the game they're playing. Sid Meier is the only one you listed who's really marketed with the game. Grim Fandango wasn't called Tim Schafer's Grim Fandango. Even with the more popular ones like John Carmack, we don't call his games John Carmack's Doom. It's just Doom.


He announced he was leaving last week. But I don't think he's the "former" CEO just yet. He said he was going to stay on until Jak III is done.

mag

Jackal

That's simply not true at all. Games like Spellcasting and Space Bar bore Meretzky's name on the cover. Schafer's name was on the cover of Grim Fandango. King's Quest games had Roberta Williams' name on the front, etc. Perhaps the "vast majority" of people don't know who they are (which is debatable), but not for lack of crediting.

The fact that games aren't necessarily called Joe Blow's Game X is irrelevant. Very few movies are, either.

Anyway, I'm just noting that more PC developers seem to have had a higher degree of name recognition than their video game counterparts over the same time period, and that they seem to be making the most advancements in that area even now.

Phantom

You're missing the point. The examples you are giving here are all old games. Things have gotten much worse the last few years. Basically since the big money arrived in the business and the large publishers took over. Of course movies don't carry their director in the title, but how are they marketed? In every single movie ad the names of the director and the primary actors are mentioned multiple times. The movie is announced as 'Steven Spielberg's X'. The movie may be called X but it's marketed as Steven Spielberg's X.
On the other hand, if you see a computer game ad (most notably EA games) only the publisher is mentioned. They don't even bother to put a small icon representing the developer somewhere. The same basically goes for all other publishers, except that the developer SOMETIMES gets a small icon in the bottom right corner of the screen when the ad ends. That's about as far as the publishers are willing to go today. And THAT is the point Rubin is trying to make.

And face it: nobody knows John Carmack, even though he's one of the most brilliant programmers on this earth and responsible for basically the best 3D engines of the last 10 years. His name should be written in big letters on the box of every ID game. Yet only a VERY small percentage of gamers (basically the people who roam forums like these) know about him. The general audience doesn't and there's something seriously wrong with that.